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Why do we need them? I mean why are they there? I mean why can't they stop drinking for a week and join the family, the good-spirited fellows, brothers and sisters?
They don't come there to pray for peace, they come to prey on the peaceful.
There's alcohol at every festival, at every holiday, it's the only legality that gets some people through it. They sell it on every corner, so people a can feel sorry for themselves and victimize other peoples inner child, mellow style, easy wild.
I've been going to gatherings for nearly a century, I mean I been to a bunch, and I've put up kitchens and went on silly water runs. You get to see what works, the circle of things after a certain time. A-camp is the weakest link. they do not protect me, my sober and capable and rational family does. I can't think of no good reason why they are there except a grand lack of forethought and ambition by the rainbows that have come before. If I wanted to go to a festival and get drunk at the parking lot and hustle my family for my endless thirst I wouldn't go to the woods, I'd go to some concrete dump in the middle of the city or nearby.
Isn't that reasonable, one week a couple weeks out of 52 weeks, a nonalcoholic event, that would be revolutionary, that would be kind and gentle, that would be cool and real. No other Rainbow countries have such a problem. Every Gathering I hear a few messed up story, might as well change the A from alcohol to Agro, from A to Z, counter productive, disconnected, selfish.
The front gate is the cover page, the doorstep, the preview, one of the most important places to welcome family in, who came to unite and in-light and high-light, and there they are, spare changing for the next keg, yelling at me, my bro, my sis, my nephews, my FAM. Who gave them this power? We did.
Give me one good reason, why people need to drink at a gathering, in the woods, where everything is subtle and fragile and requires a delicate sense of being, or at least a sense of being. Don't tell me they're too powerful, for that 's the weak mindedness that has led to this dysfunction, and rabid charade. I've heard it all before. What do you think I've been studying? Cars, houses, blue collars??? No, Trees, elements, Family.
Drunk people being at the front gate is like having a irate pit bull on a thin chain. I've seen that chain snapped too many times, that I'm just ready put the dog to sleep, for there's children about.
I want to know, what's holding us back? Lack of communications, lack of organization?? What's keeping us from evolving towards the light. I hear everyone talking about changing the world at a gathering, I hear all these peeps talking, just because they dug a shitter, talking shit. It's out of sight, till it's not, till it personally effects you, till you realize we're all connected.
Humble me with sensible words, inspire me with solid ideas, tell me it's easy as long as we work together, work hard.
One possible plan: for the family to agree that we don't need alcohol in the woods, (maybe for the cleanup crew, when it's just mostly road dogs, but whatever), that simple. No guns, no laws, just a plea. Just a flawless hope, that people will listen to our heartsong. That if you come to the gathering to drink, it's maybe not the place for you right now, there's people trying to get straight, there's family out here who need real connections.
When a person is drinking, they lose themselves, they become someone else, they are absorbed by their addiction, because that's what it is and what is does is numb one, let's the senses go dull and thoughts made blunt, voices raise, blood pressure escalates, emotions out of hand. What drinker is himself?
So maybe instead of beer, we can offer something better, a family, people who'll understand, who'll help you help yourself. We can give them a Gathering, instead of a parking lot. A family, instead of a gang. A positive instead of a negative.
A-camp SUCKS, Maybe we should have a thread of people telling stories of all the shit that happens at Acamp, or maybe i'll have to hear it again and again at the gathering this year.
Make the world you want to live in!!! Namaste
They don't come there to pray for peace, they come to prey on the peaceful.
There's alcohol at every festival, at every holiday, it's the only legality that gets some people through it. They sell it on every corner, so people a can feel sorry for themselves and victimize other peoples inner child, mellow style, easy wild.
I've been going to gatherings for nearly a century, I mean I been to a bunch, and I've put up kitchens and went on silly water runs. You get to see what works, the circle of things after a certain time. A-camp is the weakest link. they do not protect me, my sober and capable and rational family does. I can't think of no good reason why they are there except a grand lack of forethought and ambition by the rainbows that have come before. If I wanted to go to a festival and get drunk at the parking lot and hustle my family for my endless thirst I wouldn't go to the woods, I'd go to some concrete dump in the middle of the city or nearby.
Isn't that reasonable, one week a couple weeks out of 52 weeks, a nonalcoholic event, that would be revolutionary, that would be kind and gentle, that would be cool and real. No other Rainbow countries have such a problem. Every Gathering I hear a few messed up story, might as well change the A from alcohol to Agro, from A to Z, counter productive, disconnected, selfish.
The front gate is the cover page, the doorstep, the preview, one of the most important places to welcome family in, who came to unite and in-light and high-light, and there they are, spare changing for the next keg, yelling at me, my bro, my sis, my nephews, my FAM. Who gave them this power? We did.
Give me one good reason, why people need to drink at a gathering, in the woods, where everything is subtle and fragile and requires a delicate sense of being, or at least a sense of being. Don't tell me they're too powerful, for that 's the weak mindedness that has led to this dysfunction, and rabid charade. I've heard it all before. What do you think I've been studying? Cars, houses, blue collars??? No, Trees, elements, Family.
Drunk people being at the front gate is like having a irate pit bull on a thin chain. I've seen that chain snapped too many times, that I'm just ready put the dog to sleep, for there's children about.
I want to know, what's holding us back? Lack of communications, lack of organization?? What's keeping us from evolving towards the light. I hear everyone talking about changing the world at a gathering, I hear all these peeps talking, just because they dug a shitter, talking shit. It's out of sight, till it's not, till it personally effects you, till you realize we're all connected.
Humble me with sensible words, inspire me with solid ideas, tell me it's easy as long as we work together, work hard.
One possible plan: for the family to agree that we don't need alcohol in the woods, (maybe for the cleanup crew, when it's just mostly road dogs, but whatever), that simple. No guns, no laws, just a plea. Just a flawless hope, that people will listen to our heartsong. That if you come to the gathering to drink, it's maybe not the place for you right now, there's people trying to get straight, there's family out here who need real connections.
When a person is drinking, they lose themselves, they become someone else, they are absorbed by their addiction, because that's what it is and what is does is numb one, let's the senses go dull and thoughts made blunt, voices raise, blood pressure escalates, emotions out of hand. What drinker is himself?
So maybe instead of beer, we can offer something better, a family, people who'll understand, who'll help you help yourself. We can give them a Gathering, instead of a parking lot. A family, instead of a gang. A positive instead of a negative.
A-camp SUCKS, Maybe we should have a thread of people telling stories of all the shit that happens at Acamp, or maybe i'll have to hear it again and again at the gathering this year.
Make the world you want to live in!!! Namaste
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Re: A-camp
Sat, March 24, 2007 - 5:44 PMthere's a place for everyone in our family...
just as i wouldn't want them to impose their way of life on you, i don't support you imposing yours on them.
it's a gathering of the tribes, there's a lot of individuals that i might not share a path with... but everyone is welcome.
viva A Camp!
not an a-camper.
-fritts. -
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Re: A-camp
Sat, March 24, 2007 - 6:05 PMIt's like the drunk uncle that cries for too long on your shoulder at thanksgiving and then shits himself in a rage in the driveway. It's not pretty but it's family so you keep your door open and wash off his ass. You just don't let him sleep in your bed or drink at your table. Then you lock yourself in the pantry and cry because he's part of you.
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Re: A-camp
Sat, March 24, 2007 - 6:58 PMThere's a place for everyone in the family,
but why don't we allow meat at the circle, why do people camp at least fifty feet from the streams and springs, why do we pray for peace on the 4th?? Why don't we want hard drugs into a gathering or guns? Is it because rainbow is trying to force their hippie-dippy ways on people, or maybe there's just better systems, better ways to do things.
Rainbow is not forcing anyone to be a vegetarian at main circle, not forcing people to cover up the dogs shit, just asking, so the gathering can be a better place. If the elders before didn't sit for weeks in their wigwams and RV's and argue endlessly for these things to happen, for a better system, for everyone.
Sure everyone can come, please do, but leave the guns and power tools and television at home. Why? Not because we don't eat meat or shoot guns or watch television or whatever, it's for the common good.
Thing is that you can't reason with a drunk person, let alone a mob. That they don't really listen, so any arguement is futile, any suggestion to a drinking person is volatile, they take shit the wrong way, they're tripping on hops.
For it to be a true gathering of the tribes we most welcome all, not put up walls. A-camp isn't a fun and happy go lucky place, it's filled with darkness and excess and so on. I'm not criminalizing them, but they're worse then the cops at gatherings, worse then thugs in cities, just a bunch of hustlers.
So we can say, "Yeah come on down, Party, make a big mess, we'll be over here, far away, praying for peace and circling for fun and eating good food. No you guys get drunk, in a parking lot, you drove all the way out here to do so. While the rest of us are here for Gathering. Feel free to hustle the freshies, to take advantage of the family, better yet, go right up front so you can aggressively spare change and harass people, front row seat. Go head and rage, surrounded by a bunch of raging alcoholics, who don't know a hug from a fist, who smile like lizards, who wouldn't be there unless they could be parasites on a giving site."
No other Rainbow Nation, country has such a drinking PROBLEM. If they just suckle on their bottles of booze, like babies on titties, I'd be stoked, but truth is that they can't handle their liquor, their lives, their family. All around them, magic and light, love and open arms, and still they'd rather drink in a dinghy parking lot. Doesn't make sense and here we are providing a space for them to be sodden and wreckless.
Dude you ever see the lethal force of one fool? The clumsiness of a mob? The sting of broken glass. It's like coming down from a big trip. All in the gathering you feel safe, there's family, but then you leave to get something from your car and there's trouble. Some Guy is getting pushed around, bats and other objects are circling him, with bad intents. Why? You don't care, you think they're healing, but reality is that they have kegs of poison. What took out the Natives? Alcohol, they'll tell you a thing or two about it. So they beat another guy up for nothing, and you just walk away. What if it was me? What if it was a sister? It has been and will be and we let it happen; thanks family.
Anyway maybe I'll just hang out at kiddie village next year, then it'll all be cupcakes and sugar water.
The thing that makes an event good or bad, is really infrastructure. It's the Raps, the guidelines, not put there to keep people out, but to let more come and have a better time.
A-camp is not Rainbow. Rarely have I seen Rainbow there. I've seen family there drinking, but that's not rainbow. Go to most rainbow gatherings and you'll see rainbow is more then about a substance, more then a bunch of fiends greedy fighting for another cup of forgetfulness. I don't know where people got the idea, that A-camp is rainbow. Probably, because few people have to deal with them directly, because they're avoided by most the family, probably because hippies are as acute as they can be.
A place for everyone to heal, not deal, to be real, not steal, to share meals, to feel, to feel, to feel, to freewheel, to freewill, not to feel ill and overkill. Still they're family and I think they need more family and less booze. Two weeks? Is that really going to alienate any Rainbow? Every other show and festival and everything, you can drink, you can forget yourself, you might as well, few or none of the people around you are really family, they just bought a ticket, they just want to be cool. Let nature be holy, sacred, something more then a bunch of rednecks trashing the woods.
I know it's a sensitive issue and I would tread lightly if I could, but dam, this is serious. I have been too serious in the past and I shall be too serious again, but I doubt if I'm being serious enough. What can I do? I see it so clearly. What do the elders see that I don't. What do you see. I have blind sights, but your over there, you can see what I can't. Great.
I've thought about this, this is what i think about. How can I make RAinbow Land better, how can we set foundation for seven generations, how could we be more open and understanding, how can we do it. I think about it, but I didn't always, even after all the shit I've seen go down.
Rainbows got problems, we need to work on them or else they'll get worse, or else thing won't get better. A-camp is a problem. I'm not saying hate Acamp, not at all. I'm saying let's manifest, shift the paradigm. I'm saying they need help and we're not really helping, they need family, not customers and philanthropists, they need hugs and nature, not cars and drama.
Rainbow is the perfect place for most people who need to heal, if not everyone and why not make it a better place, why not see the full circle, recycle the cycle, see where it's going, study life, people, love, one selves. If I was a drunk or a drinker or a stinker, I know that A-camp would just corrupt me further, who make me wolf among jackals. The A-camp mentality is whack.
Think about, give me a real reason, just one, why they need to be there? They don't.
You can't give me a reason, just rebel pomp and flare, just a level without a cause, just because it sounds good, you can't give the family a better gathering, you can't give yourself a fight to fight for, or maybe you can. Maybe you're busy on some other great project of procrastination, maybe you're the middle class that supports gatherings and just like to chant along with anarchist slogans.
A-camp is a thing of the past. In 10-15years no one will remember it. Some might drink, some might puke, but it's on their own, not flanks by an army of extremist (drinking all the time is pretty extreme). That's what I believe. Maybe I'm just a dreamer like Lennon, but he was all talk, he was a punk, he was selfish. So maybe I'm more like a Warrior, who knows there are things, people, animals, families one must stand up for. The rest of you dreamers move aside and learn to grow, to give, to live, to love, to light, to fight, for rights of what's right.
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Re: A-camp
Sat, March 24, 2007 - 8:29 PMWho is one person to judge another? How rainbow is that? -
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Re: A-camp
Sat, March 24, 2007 - 10:01 PMIt's not just one person, but who was darwin to judge creationist? Who was jesus to judge? Who Einstein to notice the speed of light, to judge it's essence? Who was Jerry Garcia to sing songs, with bias, with heart, with soul? Who was Malcom X to judge the white people. Who was crazy horse? Who was everyone that had a positive effect on the world, who went out there and said this is wrong and something must be done? Who was Che? They were one person with vision, one person who echoed what was in the heart of the multitude. Who am I? Someone deeply involved with Rainbow, someone who's hitch countless miles alone to feed the family. I am that person who knows better, who believes in others.
Sure I might be a little funky, I might be a little colorful, I might be me. That's rainbow and I think rainbow isn't about judging others, but helping others, teaching others a better ways. I dare say we must judge to do anything honest in this world, we most weigh out the pros and cons, we must be calibrated not by cities and schools, but by nature and knowledge.
If I got one good reason, just one, for A-camp being at Rainbow, then I'd shut the heck up and go back to being a troll and heckler, but you can't.
Who are you not to judge? The News? The media? Part of the herd. I'm confused. Who are you? Are you a Walt Whitman or John Wayne? Are you an actor, do you get paid for agree with the lines you're given.
Who is one person? One person is the start of my next poem, it's bird who's flown the coop, it's a revolution waiting to happen, it's a seed waiting to be planted to be a forest, to be a home to a whole ecosystems, it's a penny that scratched the surface of the lottery ticket to win it all and gives it all back.
Sure most the time one is a lonely number, easily spent, other times you got to reckon, that there are people with vision, that stand on the shoulder of giants, that surf tsunami's. I look around and one can't do much for me either, but when I'm at a gathering, it's on.
How rainbow is it? How hippie-critical? Right. To judge? To perceive, to look into, to delve in depth. Don't get me started on politics, semantic, reality. I'll tell you how Rainbow it is, it's full spectrum, it's tangible, it's a crystal, looking out from all the angles at the light. Books! Read! Get informed! Knowledge is key. What farmer doesn't know how to used a ho? What carpenter doesn't know a hammer well? Well then what kind of man speaks of words he knows not the definitions for? What kind of Man talks, but speaks only because it's popular? No man, but a boy, who has heard of life, but has not tested it, who has answers he has not questioned, who has a dull sword, but used chopsticks to hunt?
I am no one, just someone that wants a better Gathering for all. Who is one person to be silent when your truth makes a difference?
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Re: A-camp
Sun, March 25, 2007 - 12:29 AM
"i'd... go back to being a troll"
this implies you're not trolling right now.
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Re: A-camp
Sun, March 25, 2007 - 9:33 AMYou are ranting. Yes terrible things happen sometimes in a-camp. Terrible things happen throughout the gathering from time to time. A kid died INSIDE the gathering at Utah. People get messed up every year. You are spending tons of energy being all fussed up about this topic. You say you wish that you could help this part of the family. have you ever taken someone from A-camp by the hand on the 4th and walk side by side with them to the main circle? That may be a way for you to start making a change in the rainbow world. A way for you to talk to someone and find out why they stay in a-camp. Maybe they are afraid. You say with no alcohol there will be more love and harmony, that may be true in certain realities. Start with your self, give more love to a-camp,be a drop of water in the middle of the pond, send your ripple through... don't exhaust yourself arguing with people online. If you think there needs to be more organization towards your dream of a better rainbow, stop griping and organize it! You have the power, and the support will follow your efforts once you set it in motion.
Namaste -
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Unsu...
Re: A-camp
Sun, March 25, 2007 - 10:15 AM
"have you ever taken someone from A-camp by the hand on the 4th and walk side by side with them to the main circle? That may be a way for you to start making a change in the rainbow world. A way for you to talk to someone and find out why they stay in a-camp..." Nice idea, but All of us need to do this at EVERY gathering. The problem is that they are too boozed up to understand rationale thinking. I would agree that alcohol needs to have a much smaller place at gatherings but as long as WE allow it, it will continue, and it will continue to get worse and not better. I feel that alcohol needs to be a private thing and not a community within.
I dont see this as a rant. I agree that a-camp is a very big issue, and complicated. Alcohol is a root of evil. It gives every Gathering a bad name. Want to know why the cops dont like us? A lot of it has to do with what happens in a-camp. Then the drunkards spread out and wreak more havoc, they go into town and cause trouble and in all make the entire family look bad just like our "Drunken Uncle"
The way I see it we have 2 choices. 1, we can sit back and do nothing or 2, we can stand up and let our voices be heard. I for one have never been the type to sit quiet and not speak my mind and the truth. Fact is sometimes the truth hurts and alcohol is hurting our truth and Peace. -
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Re: A-camp
Sun, March 25, 2007 - 12:15 PMI often find that folks who have problems with people who drink have those problems because of something personal. I don't imagine that anyone who has these repressed problems with alcohol will feel better at the end of the day until they deal with there problems. I understand that A-camp has an image problem but lets face it as soon as a male sets foot in a town with a skirt on we start being targets, looking for the bad is always easier than looking for the good. I feel a whole "its time we cleaned up rainbow family" scares the bejeesus out of me.
I say love them and be a symbol and hopefully you will find peace with this issue.
Be well
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Re: A-camp
Sun, March 25, 2007 - 12:56 PMMaybe every argument is a rant, every suggestion a bit flippant, every word controversial.
Is there a better place then the internet to hear one's collective ideas echoed? To communicate with a broader spectrum. I think Rainbow's biggest problem besides A-camp is communication. What makes Burning Man and other events such a success? Communications. Councils at Gathering are too short, there's all the heartsongs and bitchen' and rants and high holies and such. That's what we get for wanting to live up to this Utopian idea that everyone has a truths, that everyone's voice matters, that everyone actually knows what they're talking about. Great.
How can I make this message more appealing, this plea, this prayer??? Shall I just forget about it? My Dad who doesn't drink water, only cheap alcohol, forget how disconnected I felt at the party I drank at last night for "fun" and the puke on the sidewalk, forget that it takes small arguments to make big changes, that most people aren't looking at the full circle, that they're only caught up in their orbit, that if every person took responsibility for their slaktivist ways, it'd be a better world.
I remember the few occasions our kitchen has gone to A-camp after some big drama and tried to sedate them, to love them, to show them they were part of the circle. Holding hand on the fourth ain't going to do it, but it's cute, I wish it would, that I had that kind of energy to spend on someone who should know better, who's old enough to be my father, my brother, my sister, a mother, old enough to know better.
I thought this was a way to make a change, or are we all talk here? Should I be telling jokes instead, do you want me to be a Warrior or bridge troll? Probably the latter. But there's hungry people, there's problems that we can't fix, not that there won't be more problems, that it won't be perfect.
Our drunk uncle needs help, not a 12pack of beer for his birthday. Imagine him chopping some wood or cooking up some pancakes for the family, no longer a stranger. That's what I want, what I figure everyone wants, like ice cream. Am I naive? Sure, but hardly unrealistic. Rainbow is magical! People heal and everyone's a healer there.
I thought this was better then going to circle and saying yeah, "yeah A-camp sucks" and telling them to deal with it. They know this, they know something I don't, that's why they hardly ever talk about it, why it happens. I can't say it alone, my whisper will be lost in a near-by dog fight. We must gather our voices, which speak from our hearts and say, "A-camp sucks, We're doing something about it."
Maybe for the crustier, more road doggier then I kids they don't mind A-camp, maybe their real uncle hangs out there, maybe they don't have anything to worry about, they're invincible, but worry. Worry for your family, for everyone is a leader, but what is it to be without direction, to follow the flow, to not strive for a better world.
As I say, there are children, with mother's and fathers walking in, looking for community and family. Let me remind you we are children, stumbling, tripping, learning to walk and talk, like boys, then like men. We need a SAFE environment, we need to speak for the trees, for the land, for the love, for the babies, who need a nurturing environment.
I think this is the place to talk, to effect change, maybe some people don't care, don't see it for a valid and crucial point? Well you can't convince everyone and one does need too. And I dare say any argument for A-camp, will be emotional and irrational, instead of logical and rational, and that it will only make this point stronger.
I am worried that there are few warriors, that people aren't LIGHT for what needs to happen, that I'm surround by a bunch of troll pit house family that just likes to talk, that I'll feel defeat if I bring it up in at a gathering like I have before, that my logic isn't sound enough, that it's too good of an idea, that it's ahead of it's (rainbow) time, but still I speak, still I will discuss any point to the period, because I see the cause and effect, I see what others did and I'm more then a poet, artist dreamer, I'm an activist, I'm catalyze, I'm a spark. We all are until we become lovers of things and ease, rather then lovers of wisdom and adventurers.
Where shall I go? Who will hear me? This page is a feather, this is my heartsong and I wrote it for you and I sing it for you and I need a drum, I need a fire, I need a family.
"It takes a Family to Raise a Kitchen."
Let's feed more then food, let's feed the hearts and mind, let's plant for tomorrow, let's gather for each other, let's hold hands, lets us turn from Be/Here/Now mentality to Be/wherever/forever, let's evolve some foresight, let us see that if we only plan for today, we will lose lifetimes of progress, let's chill, drink a beer, smoke a bowl and read a book on alcoholism and get together.
It's really not that hard. It might take more then a night or a Gathering, but we always underestimate ourselves, over estimate our community, guesstimate the reality. We need to be clear.
All love and if anyone gives me a good reason why they should be there, tell me and I'll shut up. But really I want to hear reasons why they shouldn't be there, why we shouldn't let them, for really to me the point is self evident and we just need to motivate.
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Re: A-camp
Sun, March 25, 2007 - 4:06 PMI'm not talking for any kitchens. you must be joking.
fascism |ˈfa sh ˌizəm| (also Fascism) noun an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
Randoms commenter's? Slactivist? Global conspiracy?
Comedians are everywhere. givethanks -
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Re: A-camp
Sun, March 25, 2007 - 4:10 PM"authoritarian system of social organization... intolerant views"
interesting. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A-camp
Sun, March 25, 2007 - 6:13 PMI think I understand this discussion fully. You head out hoping to have a wonderful time with people like you, freely with open discussion and relaxation... and then comes certain people who decide they can't have a good time without cracking a bottle or a can of beer in order to be comfortable among others. It turns out that you just go "camping" and are surrounded by people who just like hanging out in the wilderness with others who like "camping". Well, damn...I can do that just about anywhere.
That brings to this question then:
What is the Rainbow family? -
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Re: A-camp
Mon, March 26, 2007 - 10:35 AMIt IS pretty lame, a-camp and the alcohol.....
there are people in the parking lot who never go to the circle, because they don't believe in peace, etc.......every year i have talked with a few people in a-camp, and it's pretty depressing.........
it reminds me........if you've ever read le petit prince,.....the little prince.....one of the planets the prince visits has drunkard... who can't remember if he drinks to forget or if he drinks to remember, or something like that....
i don't think you're going to end drinking anywhere.....unless we run out of ANYTHING and everything that can be distilled to make alcohol.....then, if we ran out of something to make alcohol with, we'd probably revert to injecting random substances into our veins until we found some high (low) alternative......
but what was it....what loser was it in 2006 decided to bring a keg into main circle? did that really happen? i hope it was just a rumour.....
anyways......
alcohol is banned at the gathering....i don't know why people think it's cool to drink anyways......i mean, i've shared a shot with clean-up crew digging through recyclables and broken tent poles, but a-camp ...geesh
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Re: A-camp
Tue, April 10, 2007 - 8:36 PMI watched being marched in over the heads of the chanting A-Campers... They were attempting and suceeding at making a huge stir! people were screaming, "no alcohol in the church" among other things
the keg was empty
they suceeded in their attempt... raise hell
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Re: A-camp
Mon, March 26, 2007 - 11:23 AMSo you call yourself a spark, I think your logic is sound. What are you going to do about it?
A spark doesn't do anything if theres no tinder to catch the flame. are you going to build the fire or just continue to talk about it?
Are you going to wax all righteous or are you going to initiate some action.
Do you have a plan to correct this problem you've spent so much time writing about?
Do you have a plan?
come on, this is such a flaky rainbow gripe, Sure a-camp drama and disease is negative.What are you going to do about it?
what can you do?
organize an a-camp persecution party to chase them out of the gathering?
I hope you have a better plan. -
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Re: A-camp
Mon, March 26, 2007 - 12:55 PMPart of the solution Is discussing the issue....raising awareness of the issues.... a lot of people have no clue what rainbow is about.....ESPECIALLY if all they've seen is A-camp....
Many folks never make it in to the actual gathering....they either think a-camp IS the gathering....either this or they are too disgusted with a-camp to even make it past front gate.... -
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Re: A-camp
Mon, March 26, 2007 - 1:00 PMbut it is also important to note that folks who are addicted to a substance will do anything to get that substance.... I'm not sure Rainbow C.A.L.M has enough resources to help all the alcoholics who stay at A-camp.....
It's supposed to be a gathering for Peace and celebration of our freedom......not a 12 step recovery program.....
to help everyone who drinks and bamboozles at a-camp....it would take a full medical center with detox equipment and toxicologists, and not to mention padded cells and therapists.....
a-camp is not a celebration of peace, or an excercise of freedom....it's pretty much poverty & alcoholism...... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A-camp
Thu, April 5, 2007 - 6:08 AMWell I’ve read throw all your posting here lot of good points made.... But doesn’t do anything unless you take it to counsel.... All this internet hype should be brought to the counsel circle....
I fully agree “A” camp should not be any place near front Gate Welcome Home We Love You....
I say the young rainbows(teenagers) our future showing the future.... Aren’t the children ‘our’ future???? Then what of the young teenagers< young adults aren't they the up coming future should they be given a shot no why it could be as bad as "A" camp at least have few eldes to help keep the peace if need be and to give the young adults pointers....
Here’s why I say this at this years gathering coming home at front gate I was not Welcome Home I love you, no some drunk telling me I had to pay to park and had to park there, yeah right, not kept driving..
One late night while at the camp firte at kiddy village the topic of “A” camp up and the young rainbow sister speaks up and says she glad for “A” camp it shows her how not to be.... Oh that’s only half of her wisdom.... She boldly states they(young adults) can do it better then “A” camp and says Welcome Home We Love You and it sent chills down my back, then she got the whole fire pit of young adults to say Welcome Home We Love and I had tears of joy running throw my heart of hearts and had to sit down and think just how right these young adults were and how much inner Love these young adult rainbow warriors had just in their voice....
To stop “A” camp from being at front gate is simple buy a keg or two of deer and make sure they think that’s going to be front gate, hey the kegs there already all they have to do is set up camp, so they think.... Then when the directions are posted on the internet they are now at the rear gate hee! hee! And to drunk to move camp, and hey the beer already there.... Trust me I use to be a "A" camper til my car accident in 1984, haven't drank since...
I remember when “A” camp was for the brothers & sisters that wished to dry out before the went into the woods to pray at main circle on the 4th so this statement “not a 12 step recovery program.....” is was true back in the days, needs to go back to that to help those wishing to go pray with a clear mind. After all they are ‘our’ brothers & sisters and we love them but isn’t enough enough???? Time to roll it back to what it was for if they wish to have that type of B.S. going on in their “A” camp the take it a mile down the road....
Just my thoughts, but main circle counsel is where ‘we’ all should bring this and let ‘We The People’ make it happen.....
“Who’s Job is it for One World Love & Peace & HEALING?”
Once upon a time, there were four(4) brothers & sister.
And their names were EVERYBODY, SOMEBODY, NOBODY, & ANYBODY.
There was an import job to be done & EVERYBODY was asked to do the job.
EVERYBODY was sure SOMEBODY would do the job.
ANYBODY could do the job, but NOBODY did the job.
When NOBODY did the job, SOMEBODY got mad because it was EVERYBODY’S job to do.
EVERYBODY thought ANYBODY could do the job, but NOBODY realized that EVERYBODY wouldn’t do the job.
Ended up EVERYBODY blamed SOMEBODY when NOBODY did what ANYBODY could/should have done in the first place.
The moral of this story is that when you find yourself saying; “SOMEBODY” should Love One another, Respect one another, Teach one another, Keep the Peace & Love & Healing, Stop Injustice in the world, Stop the Wars, Feed the poor, Heal the sick, Stand up for Nature Universal Rights of Others!!!!
REMEMEBER: “YOU” ARE “SOMEBODY”!!!!
Isn’t that what “We’ve” always truly wanted????
To be that “SOMEBODY” as our Creator intended!!!!
LIFE="L"ove‘I’nfinite‘F’uture‘E’arth=LIFE!!!!
Gandhi - King Peace Coalition
PERSONAL PLEDGE OF NONVIOLENCE
"Making peace must start within ourselves."
I, ___________________ on this________________ of, 200__.
Commit myself to become a nonviolent and peaceable person.
To Respect Myself and Others:
To affirm others and to avoid uncaring criticism, hateful words, Physical attacks and self-destructive behavior.
To Communicate Better:
To share my feelings honestly, to look for safe ways to express my anger and work at solving problems peacefully.
To Listen:
To listen carefully to others, especially those who disagree with me and to consider others' feelings and needs, rather than insist on having my own way.
To Forgive:
To apologize and make amends when I have hurt another, to forgive others and to keep from holding grudges.
To Respect Nature:
To treat the environment and all living things, including my pets, with respect and care.
To Play Creatively:
To select activities and games that support values, which avoid activities which make violence look exciting, funny or acceptable.
To Be Courageous:
To challenge violence in all its’ forms whenever I encounter it; whether at home, at school or in the community: I will stand with others that are unfairly treated.
This is my personal pledge. These are my goals. I will check
myself on what I have pledge at least once a month on the ____days of the month.
“Eliminating violence, one person at a time, starting with myself.”
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Re: A-camp
Tue, July 31, 2007 - 5:40 AMyou, are holding yourself back. we are more the same than diffrent!!
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Re: A-camp
Mon, March 26, 2007 - 1:39 PMThough I may not understand everything,I am opposed to these pesky trail trolls who have nothing better to do than sponge for a free high and harress free passage to those in need.I countlessly volunteer water service to many with out,and to find feet purposely blocking me with real intentions is as untasteful as the A- Campers rap imposed upon them by non elders, or the young and restless.There is bad vibe created by alcohol but being called "Lame" as I pass by ,or why do" I" even come to the gathering-as I no longer get high, is wrongful-its about Love,Peace and shareing kindness with all no matter who we are-don't question-just be,it is all of our rights to the Vision.Brothers and sisters will overcome and be Family even in our darkest hours....I only pray you understand that by then....your brother in Love and Peace....always. -
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Re: A-camp
Tue, April 3, 2007 - 8:56 PMokay, lets get beyond just alcohol. what of other drugs? sure there's no "hard drugs" (i think this is funny considering poppy plants and coca leaves) but others drugs are allowed/celebrated? how many rainbows have taken e or k or ghb or ac2b or whatever synthetic "positive" drugs are around. I was at the Costa Rica world gathering and witnessed a crapload of people on some synthetic drug ac2b or something, were having vision problems, spaced out heads. I believe the issue is less with the alcohol and more with the destructive attitude, which doesn't stop at a-camp. especially prevelanmt amoing first timers and younger kats who are feeling uneasy or unsure of family dynamics.
so yes, many of us are addicted and overmedicating (even overmedicating with water). that's a problem. to point fingers and say it is only a-camp is a misstep. let's use a-camp to learn about the addict in each and every one of us. like the dancer in the circle dancing counterclockwise.
paz
jay -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 6:20 AMI am new here, so I will begin with that caveat. But I am not new to Rainbow, I have always been part of the tribe - no matter what my addiction or drug of choice. if I decide to hide it from you, does that make you feel better? Not to see me, or hear me? Can you drum loudly enough to make it go away? Are there enough smoke fumes in your camp to overpower the smell from another?
Addiction is a personal problem. Alcoholics don't care whether you drink with them or not - they secretly hope you'll turn down the invite and leave the $$. It is not a matter of being part of the group - they don't want to be a part of the Circle, or go inside the gate. To do that is to admit the problem. Not cool, or helpful, unless you are willing to replace their drug of choice with some of your own.
And what is your drug of choice? All humans medicate themselves. It is the thinking that gets in the way, you see. If you didn't have issues to think about, problems to solve, then you wouldn't have to be "enlightened", lifted to some higher plain. Alzheimer's patients don't die of stress related diseases - they have no stress, because they can not think anymore, or worry anymore.
Are you so concerned because you have to move past them to get inside the gate? I find that very symbolic. Are you concerned because they give Rainbow a "bad name"? Rainbow has always had a bad name, and part of the "cause" seems to be overcoming it. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. Are you concerned for the safety of others? Then what of them after they leave a Gathering? Are you still as concerned? Do you spend the energy given to you protecting these same people at the opposite side of the Wheel?
The addicted among us are nothing but another aspect of ourselves - neglected, ignored, criticized and maligned. Just because your mask is better at covering what you are trying to hide, doesn't make it real. It is still a part of you - to strip it away would be useless and cruel. And behind it? Another mask.... and so it goes.
Look inside yourself and find the addict, the beggar, the homeless, the unemployed, the weak, the sick, the hopeless old man or woman...
then come back, and admit you have no answers. it is a complicated puzzle, and the pieces are slippery and small.
I am no better than you; I may be worse. But who is to say?
Blessings, Star -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 7:30 AMSo because you do drugs and alcohol, you get to ruin my "gathering for peace" . .?
give it up!
boo!!!
BOOOHH!!!! -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 8:14 AM<So because you do drugs and alcohol, you get to ruin my "gathering for peace" . .?
give it up!
boo!!!
BOOOHH!!!! >
why are you booing me? I have done nothing to you - take a breath - all I am doing is presenting another point of view. If it has ruined your any thing, thats on you .
isn't this where I , or you, or anyone, can raise a question? if I am in the wrong room - oops -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 8:27 AMi'm not booing your questions, i'm booing the legitimization of drugs and alcohol as if the
"oneness" that is rainbow, is justification and acceptance of drugs and alcohol.....drugs and alcohol at a-camp are "tolerated" ......not accepted.....
and as far as folks claiming that it's not the alcohol...."it's the violence"....well, the alcohol is the cause of the uninhibited behavior.....
i have many friends who i have traveled with who are wonderful beings of light....WHEN THEY ARE SOBER........but it's just shit to see drunkards at the rainbow....
just shit -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 8:35 AMthank you for clearing that up - i was a little confused there for a minute! It is a prickly question, though. Not easy to sort out. -
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Unsu...
Re: A-camp
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 9:14 AMThis thread is a great read. I went to my first gathering last summer, as it came to me here in steamboat. i naively thought that A-camp stood for acid. And while i was new, and only with my dog, i knew that the gathering was not a place for alcohol. i remember one day seeing a group carrying a keg in, and there was a verbal stand-off, i went the other way. All day i thought about the meaning of why i was there. Why everyone was there. To me, well, the earth is dying...from the cancerous and careless spread of humans...no longer living in balance with nature. We, as a race, are so disconnected from our surroundings...And sometimes the weight of it all can cause peeps to do drastic things...like drink themselves to death, or smoke pot 24/7, or just check out. the gathering to me seems like a step in the right direction for everyone.
when i left the gathering -- i picked up 2 girls at the gate that wanted a ride to town -- they had been up drinking all night -- one of them had apparently peed in the tent on the others sleeping bag. They were lost. but somehow they found the gathering and our paths crossed. it is what it is. i am lost, too. i don't choose to take it out on alcohol, but i can't speak for anyone else.
i you run into someone too drunk at a gathering (or anywhere) here is a list of things you can do:
1. ignore 'em.
2. smoke a bowl with them -- chances are it will put them out.
3. tell them there is a free keg on the other side of camp.
feel free to add to the list.
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 8:41 AMPositive intent!
Hanging your happiness or blissful experience upon the actions of others will never lead to enlightenment. You don't have to envolve yourself in the negative aspects of another persons "movie". Embrace the positive aspects of that person and let go of the negative aspects.
I agree with what Starr posted. We are all at different places on the path to enlightenment. Have you ever considered that the reason for a-camp is the fact that that energy is all they can relate or vibrate to. It is a place that if they receive healing or vibrate to the next level they are close to family. I think that many within the gathering vibrate at a lower spiritual level than myself. That does not make me better or smarter, it just is. Indeed many there are sick of the mind and spirit and need love and compasion. This does not mean that it is not painful to see or interact with.
If this is an something that calls to you then match your intent to your action. Do something!
In my experience I have taken them food. I have taken extra gear to give to them. I offer kind words and compasion when possible.
My take on being a Rainbow is that I was put here to spread light and love. It seems to me that the poor and wretched are the ones most in need of receiving a helping hand on that journey. However I don't claim to heal anyone. Healing is something to come from within. All I can do is offer a helping hand when they want to lift themselves up.
Matt Raindance -
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Re: A-camp
Thu, April 5, 2007 - 6:09 AMnot to mention...sometimes a-campers aren't always as bad as their reputation. i know when i showed up early at the michigan national they were the ones with the only proper shitter. -
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Re: A-camp
Thu, April 5, 2007 - 10:07 AMWhat about the sisters car they stole took for a joy ride smashed it up and rolled over and left it????? I know I worked front gate in Michigan, and was there early, also built the showers down by the river here's a link to the picture of where we were camped i106.photobucket.com/albums/...als2.jpg
Not that I don't Love "A" camp seeing I use to be one.... Stopped drinking in 84....
But their out of hand off the hook for the pass few years, not what "A" camp was intened for, was to help brothers & sisters whom wish to have a clear head to go into the woods to pray, not some big ass drunk festival as of lately.
I know of two things personally about this Years Gathering at Colorado, first Jah Love and his Momma got all their stuff taken, another brother got jumped hit in the head with a log and we had to take him to the hospital to get stitched up....
So the fear thing about all the guns and rednecks hype isn’t right to have to have this happen. using fear to get control of front gate sounds like the government fear tactacts. Might as well have the rednecks come hang out and run front gate then, at least you can talk them out of it of whatever they were going to do.... Nup put the Young teenagers up at front gate like to see what would happen to the rednecks faces then when they are meant by some teenager not much older then his own kids at home???? Oh and if they did do anything bet the laws on it like flies on s$#t and them old country redneck ass be doing time.... Don’t believe all the hype about “A” camp, sure there has been a few times they where there, but what’s to say that just “A” camp could of done it???? Like anyone reading this wouldn’t if at front gate and some rednecks came trying to hurt or shooting guns you wouldn’t step up to the calling???? Bet You(the reader) would I know I would with out even thinking twice, well other then how I could do it Peacefully at all costs....
I say bring it to counsel, but its going to take a lot of talking that’s for sure, good luck all I’ve seen this topic at counsel, but numbers do speak load of the peoples wishes.....
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 10:55 AMI get your drift. Unfortunitly, thair are people that are going to drink no matter what. Ive some lovely sisters and brothers that are wonderful at all times, even when thair piss assed drunk. I had an Alcohol free pot luck once for a sister of mine, who i was trying to hlep kick the habbit, she showed up with a bottle of wine. I think its far better to keep the agro alcoholics away from the circle, and at thair own bar.
yes its sad
yes people are stupid when thiar drunk
however, ill simply let them be. -
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Check it,
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 3:01 PMThe main question really is what is Rainbow and to work around that. Violence and substance abuse are besides the point. That's everywhere. People are clumsy and narrow minded and funny and sad and so on, we need to work around that also. It's one thing to be an idealist, another to see the actual factors involved and what it would take to change and if change is needed, go full circle.
After much research I realized that rainbow it egalitarian with an anarchistic spunk. That means we accept everyone and have authority issues. It's the easiest thing to figure out, nearly all rainbow publications allude to this fact.
MY POINT BEING: That I didn't want "A" Camp to be a part of Rainbow, because it's holding us back, because it keeps us from being more together and so on. But what I realized (sorry it took me so long and thanks for being patient) was for us to be egalitarian, to have that status, to welcome all people, to except people for who they are, we need "A" camp. If we told people not to drink, not to do something, we'd be fascist in a way, hypocrites, holier then tao. Then of course "A" Camp isn't holding anyone back, we are, we hold ourselves back constantly, like it's a game, the lame blame game, we blame our reflections, our outside connections, the shadows of rainbow, but if we could only truly honor each other, do things because we wanted to, not to just say we did, do them out of love, if we could just accept everyone as a student, still learning, as a spark, still burning, that needs a little love and guidance, then "A" Camp is family, "A" Camp is crucial, "A" camp is the launchpad back to sensitivity, back to our higher selves, back to empathizing that everyone didn't have a good home, nice, caring parents, luxuries such as tenderness, a sympathetic ear, a hug, that all the Trippers Are like "A" Campers overdosing on this sacred medicine, on a smidgen of paper, on a drop, in a brownie, that all Potheads are like Trippers, see the hawks scanning the circle for it, the coyote trading anything for it, just for a nug, all around there are hugs, but one needs that nug, that kid needs shoes, but One'll only trade for a nugg, he offers One a hug, but one think he has bugs and One only want nugs, but the Zuzutarian is like the Pothead, because One's probably stoned, because all One wants is sugar now for energy, snickers and zuzu's, for that sugar rush, for that super happiness, for that flight, scanning every kitchen for a treat, trading anything for a chocolate bar or carbonated soda, but the Trader is like the Zuzutarian also, One's trying to stuff the cranny with materialism, One gets high on stuff, on junk (food), on something One didn't really need. WE DON'T NEED anyONE Of These Addicts, SUCKA. We need family! I want to thank all the kitchens, all the people who've seen this throughout the years. FAMILY. Family looks out for each other. Family accepts and honors one's higher being and forgives. Family is grand. The kitchen got the right drug, they got family working together, they got healthy food, that feeds not only the body, but also the heart and mind. Those other kicks only feed the lower appetites, take a walk on the natural side. It takes a lot to know this, years, lifetimes, and we'll always be there, after OBI-One ran out of weed, drugs, beer, stuff, even after latest girl/boy runs out on Dopey One, till One stops being a runaway, a hit and run, a casualty of One's vices, till Tender One realizes you need family more then anything else, that Girlie One needs a family who's going to except their shortcomings and help Boyish One come closer to a grown-up rather then a child. A child runs around like a chicken with the head cutoff, not ready for responsibility, it runs amok. A grown-up has been there, done all the clunking shit, and has learned from his elders, has slowed down to do more then trip, to just meditate on life and they have come back transformed, ready to be man or woman, to be responsible for their actions and their community. Then when a chicken storms in, weather-beat from the cold, the grown-ups feeds Vagabond One real food, build a fire for Chaotic One and accepts Funky One, then Bhagwan One admires them and see there's more to life then all these trips and highs and drama, more to community then girls chasing boys, and Baggy One wants to be more grown up, more together, more in touch, and Silly One starts to emulate his elders (One's that got their shit together more then money wise), because Spun One also wanted to be a part of something, because Nice One was born to help, to be a part of a tribe, but Know One never ever really gave Stubborn One a chance, until now, fetch wood, bring water, chop veggies, till Bird One's no longer disconnected, till Chill One's are feeding others, till Love One's sprouted wings, till One see's Oneself in Some One else, how they are lost, how they need family and community and it makes One Humble and Humble One now sees the cycle and the beauty of it and all the people that have worked so hard to keep him alive, happy, warm, how Crazy One used to be a fuck up, how Skater One would have never come this far if the family hadn't been there with open arms and he sheds a tear or two, because this Humble One never felt all the love till now, till Humble One realized it seems like no one cares, but Every One does and they plug into the kitchens and bring food and the CALM and the real infrastructure of Real infrastructure of Rainbow, which is LOVE, HOPE, FAITH, which is the most revolutionary place in the world, because no one else can be so open, when we deny something, that's hate, when we accept, that's love.
Everyone is just going through a phase and if we can't accept that, or help them, we need to work on ourselves more; get a job, work harder, give someone a job, work together, there are works to be done, workshops to be held, kitchens to build, family to unite.
I hope you were listening, that you won't forget it, that you are well.
Funny thing, I was tiered of "A" Camp and for years plotted to get rid of them, but I never really examined what Rainbow is and it's LOVE and FAMILY and LIGHT (hence the name, Rainbow Family of Living Light), every color is accepted, it's in the name, in the woods, in the love. So if anyone wants to know why we have "A" Camp or has any problems with them, send them my way, I'll explain best I can.
I had to start at the root and by the time I made it to the flowers I was completely coming at it from a bee level, then by the time I made it to the fruits, I was the tree. Don't make me start another topic.
LOVE
Know thyself
givethanks
be constructive
spare change for wisdom -
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Re: Check it,
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 3:15 PMYou rock with answers-my mind does'nt seem to slow down a bit as I feel its all to important-it is,but change takes it course when its good and ready,but it does change......Speaking of change,check out a post I left on Prosperity conscious-same summit,different path.
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Unsu...
Re: Check it,
Wed, April 4, 2007 - 6:30 PMI haven't thoroughly read all these posts, but I think it is a worthy topic. There are basic tenants of Rainbow that are at odds with a lot of what the alchohol experience expresses, enough so for there to be a consensual rule about it at gatherings. That in itself speaks volumes, in my opinion.
Meanwhile we live in a vast and often wicked reality, and really wonderful people fall into bad situations such as alchoholism. I do not like the violence and extreme drunken behavior that the drinking scene can promote, but I have also had some of the most real experiences of my whole life in A-camp and and around wrecking crew fires (not as a drinker, and before i'd even been to a gathering). I associated with the raw and real truths of these people who have often been through so much that most of us would perhaps not even understand. There is a true comradarie among many of these people, who are most certainly family in every sense of the word. There are also those who are not so kind, for various reasons, extenuated and possibly even directly related to alchohol. Even still, does not every one of these people need and deserve the openness and acceptance of the Rainbow? Is not that what Rainbow is all about?
I do understand the reasons for this inquiry, and also support healthy change. I know people who have died in the depths of alcholism, and those who have overcome it to live beautiful lives. I know that it is a symptom of deeper issues that I believe are within all of us. I too would like very much to see a deeper unification among our tribes, to join and express our peaceful intent. I cant see confrontation or alienation as any possible means to help the situation, but love and compassion certainly can not hurt. It is a delicate subject most worthy of our consideration.
Thank you for sharing.
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Re: A-camp
Thu, April 5, 2007 - 8:53 AMwhen i grow up can i decide who gets to be family and who don't?apparently you have never been to the early reginals when the locals used to come out with guns instead of food.especially in the deep south...i have personally witnessed the dreaded a-camp disarming rednecks who came to harm the hippies.if it wasn't for a-camp we would have had a lot more cases like the 93 tennessee regional where the locals came out with 5 shotguns and unloaded over 300 rounds directly into our camp.i was there.a-camp rolled in immediately after hearing about what happened and they put an end to the violence....so before you go making decisions on who gets to be family and who don't you may want to learn a lil more about what the fuck you are talking about.
sincerly
clearwater--->teatime -
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Re: A-camp
Thu, April 5, 2007 - 9:05 AMoh and one other example of a time that a-camp saved a life.at the 2000 oct shawnee regional gathering we had a brother come and live with us at teatime who was very bad off.the guy actually died,his heart literally stopped from "drying up".well thank god for morning flower because some how in his heightened stage of enlightenment due to some "magical tea" moflo was able to squeeze the life and breath back into the brother.well after that day a-camp was kind enough to send us a gallon of beer from the precious keg every morning to be sure that our brother dave didn't die again from dt's.i thank the creator and whatever god/goddess you might believe in for the compassion that a-camp showed by going out of their way to help us keep the brother alive.he camped with us the rest of the gathering and prolly got more healing at that time then ever before.daves not with us anymore,god rest his tortured soul.and goddess bless a-camp may they save lives and hippes for ever more.
clearwater -
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Re: A-camp
Thu, April 5, 2007 - 9:32 AMwhew i was hoping so....shit we could be next on this guys list of who can and can't be family,god knows we make a lot of noise at teatime...
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Re: A-camp
Thu, April 5, 2007 - 9:32 AMGood points Clearwater.
Clearwater is one of the true Rainbow Warriors and has a wealth of Road Scholar wisdom. His point should be given the gravity of someone who has been there and knows what's up.
love and Light
Matt Raindance -
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Re: A-camp
Thu, April 5, 2007 - 11:18 AM
A-camp will be there like it or not. Better they're outside the gathering, then at main circle. Not to say that hasn't ever happened. -
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Re: A-camp
Fri, April 6, 2007 - 4:43 PMThis A- camp discussion is making me want to hug all of you. I like the fact that everyone can HAVE a discussion and the eloquence in everyone's writing. I guess the voices are being heard. -
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Re: A-camp
Fri, April 6, 2007 - 9:59 PMlol!thats because were are discussing a-camp,not drinking whiskey there!
=]
clearwater
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Re: A-camp
Sat, April 7, 2007 - 7:25 PMTell me about it, my"wife" use to be a gutter punk alcoholic, then she entered some peace with me, then in Ocala they had a damn kegg and she just started chugging beer and went back to her old mentality and tweeked on me, she just wont give up that demon of alcohol, it has ruined my life, raged out, and took off with a-camp type people to who knows where, with my 2 kids, I stayed in those sucky, alcoholic woods in Ocala for 4 weeks, that Gathering sucks, I almost got jumped, had 3 people try to fight me for no reason and lost my family there, RagedOut and Tweeked out is what I call that!! I totally agree with you fellow human, I cant drink ever, even a few beers makes my brain spasm. -
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Re: A-camp
Sat, April 7, 2007 - 8:01 PMYeh I guess alcohol has no class, maybe even people who drink it should feel bad about themselves for that decision they made of their own free will. Yes you may heal by "these" terms, money and only money shall make your sobriety prosper, should you chose to rightfully acknowledge the fact the you are the Babylon you have been railing and warring against. then may you see it's dividend as blessing to ignorance and the perpetuation of " slavery like behavior" however if my chemical romance is not your cup of tea time, look elsewhere for patsy's to your demonic smear campaign!
(salutations reserved)
Dave -
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Re: A-camp
Tue, April 10, 2007 - 1:51 PMwow. why does this keep popping up on every rainbow message board across cyberspace?
i love you all family! a-campers or not!
the very unhappy sister on here, im sorry you are so upset. what is it in them that reminds you of you?
that is always the question i have to ask myself if someone/something is taking up that much headspace and energy.
i am you. you are me. we are all a-camp. Ignorance is NOT bliss family, send your LOVE to A-camp.
negative energy feeds on negative energy, what energy are you sending to a-camp?
snugs. xoxxo
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Re: A-camp
Tue, April 10, 2007 - 6:24 PMWay to lay it down sista!so young and so wise!our family will never die!
i love everyone,may not always like everyone,but always love them all.
clearwater -
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Unsu...
Re: A-camp
Wed, April 11, 2007 - 9:43 AMI think that this topic pops up at every forum because it is a real problem. And its not really the alcohol its the agro that goes with it. Lets face it, alcohol makes a lot of people angry and violent for no reason. It makes people black out and lose control and attack others. It also is a scar on the face of Rainbow. Some say that a-camp is the "first line of defense" but its also the first thing new people see when they get there and the media which affects wether we can ever use that site again. But this subject is never going to go away, it will always be around in one form or another. If alcohol is "banned" then the people who like to have a little wine with dinner will be upset and the subject lives on.
Personally, and I speak from many years of experience, alcohol is a destructive substance if not taken in moderation. Not unlike water which if you drink too much you will kill you also. For some its a mentality and for others its an illness.
James, I'm sorry to hear what happened. This is supposed to be about helping our brothers and sisters but I see a-camp is allowing our sick to stay sick and drag back our family that has worked hard to become well and reversing many years of healing. I'm new to this but my understanding of the family gatherings is to pray for peace, each other and to heal ourselves not lead them back to their deadly illness.
I love our a-campers. may not like them all the time but i pray for them. More needs to be done in that area for sure but know one can agree what and a lot of people just don't want to deal with it at all.
I gave up alcohol slowly 4-5 years ago. Not because I had to But because I realized how it made me act. I'd get drunk and try hard not to look drunk or act drunk. I liked to go to bars and get into fights in my younger days. I also saw how it made everyone else act too, way too much. There's no reasoning with a drunk either. Alcohol impairs their brain to the point to where they cant even understand words any. more. I say we need to help our sick brothers and sisters become well and help them heal themselves.
Alcoholic parties in my opinion has no place at the gatherings. Peace N love Ya'll -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 11, 2007 - 10:06 AMAlcohol does not create violence. Alcohol lowers inhibition. The violence was already there. I hear amillion stories and a half along the lines of "I don't remember anything, i tripped, stabbed this guy, then accidentally had sex with an underager!" BS. I hold everyone responsible for their actions, no matter how screwed they are. I drink alot and the only people I have ever met drunk who I believed did not have some level of control over their actions were severly mentally ill. Now that's another conversation. Maybe we need a mental calm at rainbow? Is this sort of thing already in existence? -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 11, 2007 - 11:31 AMummm.....yeah....i think we were talking about A-camp....
not....uhm......not whether it's okay to commit multiple felonies before dawn in the woods........
makes me wonder if...hmmm......maybe it's a good thing folks are there in a-camp getting arrested.......
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Unsu...
Re: A-camp
Wed, April 11, 2007 - 11:32 AMWell lets see, I dont see the pot smokers acting like that, or the opium smokers or even the junkies for that matter. But I do see the drunks acting like that and only the drunks. I love you all but It is what it is. -
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Unsu...
Re: A-camp
Wed, April 11, 2007 - 11:44 AMClearwater does make a great point with the watchdog aspect of this issue. A-camp over the years has done some incredible things for sure. Love n Light -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A-camp
Wed, April 11, 2007 - 4:01 PMrainbow is dysfunctional family, get used to it, you can not make people functional in a couple weeks after a life of malfunction, we shouldn't try to solve anyone's problems, just help and be supportive, people need to work on their problems, not be told to miraculously solve them (i.e. be happy, as if it was that easy), "A" camp is lame, but overall it's okay, I don't need them, (but I do, because they're a great redundant reflection) but they're there, most of the time of of sight, out of mind. groovy.
all families are dysfunctional in one way or another, but family sticks together or splits off into an elite bitchers and whiners. Love them, they are children that never learned how to be men and women, how to really help each other and their community, they come to rainbow to take advantage of those who are responsible enough and we most let them, because they need us (everyone is a parasite), like a child, otherwise they're lame, like unruly children are and a big pain in the ass, but every once in awhile, they'll grow up and give back.
I love them, as long as they stay in there pigpen and don't kill too many people... clearwater I think your points are besides the points, but you love them, so that's the point....
love them, avoid them, entice them towards the light, hold them, nurse them, mother them, do what you do, what you were put on earth to do, if you're not a handmaid don't wipe their ass, if you're a martyr go get drunk with them, do your thing and they'll do there's, which is immature and not completely their fault, life is harder for some, then most, and that's too easy to forget,
fight, flight or light -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, April 11, 2007 - 4:34 PMwell honestly im guilty of spending aound a week with those guys usually just before seed camp ends,while the younger teatimers set up the teahouse.i've known and been around them for many years.and honestly the ones who get beat up the most are the ones who can't see the warning signs.it don't make it right don't get me wrong.but usually before a beating happens theres plenty of warning...not always though.lets remember one thing a-camp is a tribe within the tribe.generally if you show up there chip in on any beer you might drink and leave before dark you should be aight.otherwise just drive on past them like everyone else does.
clearwater -
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Re: A-camp
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 9:35 AMi have to admit......two years ago i ran into a bro at rainbow who is drunk half the time and asleep the other half....and well it was good to see him, so we sat within earshot of montanna mud, and we all chugged a bottle of whiskey.....
then we all passed out.....this was mid-afternoon......but we all passed out right in the clearing in the woods....then we all woke up a few hours later, and then we split ways.....they went back to a-camp......but it was great....non-violent......and very surreal.... although it only took me a couple swigs before i fell asleep......they chugged the whole bottle....but that's not the point...... -
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Re: A-camp
Sun, April 15, 2007 - 5:45 PMa-camp
alot of old schoolers there with alot of experience
and stories, though they not be the oes you want to hear
these stories of recent a-camp craziness are kinda disturbing but you cant stop a-camp
its worth talkin about the craziness so maybe folks in a-camp will keep an eye on each other to not damage to much other peoples shit
and there's a few a-campers I know of you could trust to do that
A-camp is not something you can get rid of (iw ouldnt want to myself because of the safety aspects and the holier than thou story)
but if you did it would just come in the gathering
it does in other ways
...lots of family does stuff that ain't right
i can think of a lot of examples mostly involving children none that I know of happening anywhere near a-camp cause thats not where I kick it......
incidents are more important to prevent
and actually possible whereas trying to get rid of a segment of the population well, thats been done throughout history hasn't it?
Never peacefully though, never
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Re: A-camp
Mon, July 30, 2007 - 3:27 AMA-camp is never going to go away. It doesn't matter what anybody says or how much a lot of people don't like it. The only way it's going to go away is if a bunch of people stand up and say we're having an alternative gathering and there's not going to be any a-camp there. Just like guns aren't allowed now. If people have a choice as to what kind of gathering they're going to, that old one could get mighty lonely, which IMO is the way it should be. A-camp has been dragging down Rainbow for way too long. Do you think we'd have all the problems with the authorities if we were really completely peaceful and non-threatening? A-camp is as far from the spirit of Rainbow as Dick Cheney is. A-camp IS Babylon. Let them have their own gathering. It's time to try something new. -
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Unsu...
Re: A-camp
Mon, July 30, 2007 - 7:40 AMEverything we percieve comes from within ourselves. We choose every single experience in our life at some point, whether it be subconcious or conscious. That may be hard to comprehend, however it is truth. When we can stop living in our stories, and be in the present moment, then we are able to see clearly. Until then why even talk, it's a waist of time.
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Re: A-camp
Mon, July 30, 2007 - 10:08 PMBecause of its lack of wisdom,
A snake drinks milk
And emits poison.
Because of his vast wisdom,
A saint drinks poison
And offers milk.
This is wisdom in oneness,
Wisdom in perfection,
Wisdom in God-satisfaction.
All of us must act like a saint.
My ignorance thunders:
You are nothing, I am everything.
My knowledge declares:
You know something,
But I know much more.
My wisdom whispers:
You and I know nothing of everything
On earth,
And everything of nothing
In Heaven.
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Re: A-camp
Tue, July 31, 2007 - 9:57 AMPersonally, I generally don’t consume much alcohol when I am in the wilder aspects of nature, it throws off my balance. On the nature of A-Camp consuming intoxicants I believe it is a matter of poor chemistry, everyone’s body has a different metabolism and are like to behave differently when intoxicated, I say it is somewhat akin to drinking bad water, the quality and quantity of the intoxication and the side effects are variables to be considered. As part of our grand experiment, perhaps swapping out that keg of natty ice with a keg of Guinness stout or some other quality beverage correctly racked may lend some light to the lot. Learning to drink proper can be a part of the learning process. Ben Franklin stated in his 13 moral virtues 1. Temperance. Eat not to Dulness. Drink not to Elevation. I suppose he tired of Tenerife Wine and Rum, he later juxtaposed philosophically “beer is proof that god exists” in closing, "fay çe que vouldras"
P.S. Note for C.A.L.M. Activated Charcoal Tablets absorbs toxins that cause flatus -
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Re: A-camp
Tue, July 31, 2007 - 10:42 PMWhen I was freshly arriving to the Welcome home at the 1992 national (Colorado) , I got knocked over by a box of groceries that fell off the back of a 'delivery' truck. (Some kitchen's gear I think it was.) Anyhow, as much as I am not a big fan of the A-Campers, had it not been for their fast thinking and ingenuity, I may have lost my ear. I was cut pretty bad from the top of my right ear to the near center of it. They applied pressure, stopped the bleeding and managed to stitch me up with dental floss and a leather needles they borrowed off of some East Coast squatter kid. Topping it all off with a bowl of fresh soup and a cold beer. Thank you A-Campers, but next time don't lay me on the edge of the piss hole. Namaste darlin's.
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Re: A-camp
Tue, July 31, 2007 - 11:01 PMquite a fierce topic! i have some agreement with all sides discussed. what i have not heard is the (occasional as it might be...) positive experiences that some may have had? i feel pretty strongly that A-campers are indeed like that drunk uncle that embarrasses us all during the holidays every year...but in the end, is still family.
HOWEVER...i did at one time get myself into some trouble at rainbow...and it was A-CAMP that rescued me! It all started back in 94' in wyoming. i was very young, even more naive and very, very lost. I had broken up with my boyfriend, got locked out of his van, had lost my cat, had no gear, no light, was stuck in the parking lot after dark and it started snowing hard. i just sat and cried. i was freezing and missed my kitty.
a brother came by, took my hand, reassured me that SOMEONE cared and invited me back to the fire at A-camp. he, and many others around that fire that night, assured me that they would protect me and help find my cat @ first light. i was offered alcohol but when i declined, they did not judge me. they offered me some herb to calm my nerves and it did. i had no place to judge them either. i had, and still have, my own substances of choice and my own vices in life.
i am fortunate and profoundly lucky that i do not know the true horror of addiction or being addicted to destructive forces. i do, however, know the warmth of another human being's care, consideration and concern for my basic needs. the next day...they kept their word. they found my cat, they fed me and sheltered me, they sent me on my way in peace. they were the kind of people that i probebly never would have spoken to or may have walked on the other side of the street when crossing paths with them at another point in life...but now...i look past my 'enemy images' into the eyes of the human beings we all are...to the FAMILY we all are and to the common needs we ALL have as people. practice compassion, be good family. lovin ya'll! -
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Re: A-camp
Wed, August 1, 2007 - 7:18 AMI'm glad you had a positive experience in A-camp getting your ear stitched back on.
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Unsu...
Re: A-camp
Wed, August 1, 2007 - 7:54 AMWhat if we just all got together at A-camp and smoked a chillum, and chanted shiva chants to them. And then we could pretend that we're in the present moment and act like a-camp is part of the rainbow family and we could pretend like they are an aspect of the suffering going on within ourselves, and we might even get a reflection of ourselves and some of us can pretend like we're getting big heads and walk away, and some of us can pretend like we care about our fellow a- campers. And then we can pretend like it was great and we can pretend....
Right now there is only love. bottom line. anything else is because of lack of it.
WE are so diverse of a species.
I agree with the idea that if we want to make a change, the only way is by setting an example, and keep setting an example and keep setting an example. Then we will see that what we've created is a good example of how to live. The more we dwell in the problem at hand the more we feed it. How about just carry on living since we've been blessed with the gift of breath. Something comes up that isn't kosher, deal with it in that moment. Deal with it with the most high present in your heart. Then move on.
Or we can just keep bringing up bad experiences and living in them too. Exciting.
We are of the new world. It is time to step out of this paradime and start to think in a different light. nothing exsists, except The divine light of Jah. I would say to be very mindful of what we speak and think and choose to live in, would be a good start on shifting paradimes.
Thank you for your time.
aloha mahalo
B
p.s., good to see you bradly. howzit hangin?
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